Stones Cry Out

Apparently Allah has no sons so it is impossible for anyone to call him Father. Muslims characterize their relationship to him as dog to master. I think that Muslims are worshipping Satan.

You pick and choose your comparisons. If you had ever visited a Muslim country and really mingled with the people there instead of passing judgement on them from your comfortable armchair in the U.S., you would realize how peaceful and hospitable - even charitable - the vast majority of Muslims are, especially those not under siege.

I wonder if your prince of peace is the same one that Jim worships (see his recent post: "it is time to escalate [our fighting in Iraq]"). The bible is full of violent acts condoned by your god, just as western history is full of violent acts carried out at least partly in the name of Christianity, current war included. Strange how evangelical adherents to your "peaceful" religion are among the biggest supporters of an increasingly violent war for which there was (and is) no post-invasion plan other than a vague call to defeat the enemy. Maybe you can add corollaries to the 10 commandments when you get them installed in all public institutions. You know, like, "Thou shalt not kill - unless the intended victim is (1) a prisoner [proven guilt not required], (2) opposes your empire-building experiment in conquest, or (3) is just plain BAD." And once you get enough judges appointed that place so-called Christian values ahead of secular law, you won't have to worry about what BAD means, because it will be obvious to them as good Christians. Please keep me informed of your progress.

Doug - have you ever visited a Muslim country?

Dax & karl, you're both missing the main point being expressed. Rev. Sensing's post, primarily, is pointing out that the gods of Islam and Christianity cannot be the same guy. See here and here for a couple of examples (and here for more places to look). For those Muslims, as well as others, who contend that they're the same, this gulf must be navigated, and it is wide indeed. That's all I was noting.

I agree that there are plenty of nice Muslims out there. I don't understand how that changes Sensing's points in the original essay or this one that goes into more detail on the doctrine of jihad. Whether or not all Muslims practice this is not really germane to the point. The point is that there must be an explanation for a god that demands mayhem from one group while asking another group about it's goodness if one wishes to equate Allah with the God of the Old & New Testaments.

Nuts. Sorry, didn't realize hyperlinks were edited out. The links in question:

http://www.soundvision.com/info/hajj/abraham.asp
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art26108.asp
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=islam+christianity+%22the+same+god%22
http://www.donaldsensing.com/2005/02/jihads-personal-benefit-and-islamisms.html

well i would like 2 say dat im a mislim and ive been to gods house (allah) and its very beutiful marshallah and i am very upset dat people in da war are beatin and havein an war in saudia ariabia whish is upsettin bt wt has it got to do wid gods house? and frm da beginning of ma life i hve read da al quran about 5 tymes and im gonna keep and readin cos i beleive in it and i beleive da prophet (s.a.w.) and in allah. so yes i think wateva happens on da day of resurrction we all deserve it and i beleive in da day of resurrction.

Both sides miss the point. Religion should be something personal and private. Believe what you want so long as it doesn't inflict harm upon others. If both religions truly taught tolerance then why are we waged in constant warfare, both against other religions and internal wars fought by believers on other believers. I think the lesson here is really a biblical prophecy, that the earth will be destroyed in a religious battle because the vocal religious people out there simply can't rest if someone else lives their life differently, for some reason this bothers them to the point of murder and war. Unless we overcome the barrier presented by "God/Allah/Jesus Christ/Muhammed/etc." we will eventually destroy our planet and all that we know. Look to the past at how many wars were waged upon a people of a different religion? Why does religion opress women, both Islam and Christianity do, in right-wing forms. Why do you need the threat of eternal damnation to make you a good person? Why do you think that if you kill those who aren't like you that you will be rewarded with paradise eternally? If you abide by the golden rule and "do unto others as you would have done to you" then we can all believe what we want to believe in our private homes and live peacefully side by side in society and work towards preserving our environment and the quality of life for all. Why?

being a muslim, i'm afraid i find that 'muslims are worshipping the satan' part very offending. religion is private. i believe that islam, christianity and judaism are almost the same except for some differences that mainly idiots like to blow up into major issues. what some christians seem to think is that Allah is something else other than what they call God. i would like to clarify that: Allah is simply the arabic word for God. since the holy prophet muhammad (pbuh) was an arab and the quran is written in arabic, muslims call God Allah. it makes no difference what you call Him, as long as you believe in Him. when it comes to the jesus part, how can such an infinite being have children? muslims believe that God has neither children nor siblings nor parents. He is alone and infinite. no one even comes close to Him. there are 5 pillars of islam: believing in God and His prophet muhammad, giving to the poor, fasting in the holy month of ramadan, making pilgrimage to makkah and praying 5 times a day. i would like to make clear at this point that i am not denouncing any religion, i am just clarifying some facts about mine.
muslims believe in jesus as a prophet, and quite a revered one too. we believe he was born to the virgin mary and that he could perform miracles. we also believe in moses, david, abraham, ismail, adam, eve and countless others.
the 3 religions all preach the same thing: be good to your fellow human beings, don't lie, cheat or steal, don't commit adultery, don't harm or hurt anyone else physically or mentally, respect your elders, be tolerant, respect women, give to the poor, live a simple life, believe in the day of judgement and believe in God and His prophets.
so next time someone tries to make an assumption about another's religion, please get your facts straight or else ask someone who knows what they're talking about.

How are you guys doing? my name is David Daoud Ibn Wright and I am a black muslim, born and raised in United States, and for the most part from my perspective of the situation between Muslims and Christains there are alot of similarities between the two religious groups. What people fail to recognize is that not all Muslims are problematic and ruthless,I believe in Allah's religion of Islamic Monotheism, a muslim is basically a person who submits to Allah's will. Christianity is important in Islam as well and it mentions Prophet Jesus Christ son of Mary {PBUH}several times as he was indeed in important prophet. We believe that Prophet Mohammed was the last of the prophets and had more importance than Jesus Christ son of Mary{PBUH} for the simplistic fact that he was Allah's last prophet and exceeded in passing on his message. Prophet Mohammed was indeed a very nice and peace loving man, as mentioned in the Holy Quran when the angel Gabriel came to Prophet Mohammed{PUBH}and told him that if he wanted Allah could crush his enemies who were in pursute of him in between the mountains, and the Prophet said NO I only wish that they learn Islamic Monotheism and love Allah. To me thats what I call a sincere religion, but if you have any questions keep it posted.

"Marwan's god wants to know whether he committed mayhem and murder. Christ wants to know whether we fed the hungry and thirsty, welcomed strangers, clothed the naked, nursed the sick and visited the imprisoned."

The above writer wants cheap shot at Islam while in fact he shows no understanding or ignorance of the bible position in the above matter>
THE BIBLE TEACHES THUS:

You are saved by GRACE and not WORKS:

2 Timothy 1:9 (New International Version)

9.who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Ephesians 2:7-9 (New International Version)

7. In order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

It pays t know your God and how wouldyou do that?
Simply by reading and practising your faith as enjoined by God and dictated by the scriptures.
Secondly,issues raised by critics you may wish to study well enough to educate both critics and members of your faith that may not be in position to appreciate.
And thirdly, you may wish to study views of independent critics who may or not beof your faith but are putting up good or bad observations regarding some aspect of the faith.
It is in this regard that I urge all to visist the site below:
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/contents.html

MUSLIMS DOESNT WORSHIP SATAN!!!!!! THEY WORSHIP ALLAH AND ALLAH DOESNT HAVE SONS OR MUM OR DAD!!!!!!!!!!
GET THIS IN TO YOUR HEAD PEPOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In The Name of Allah, The Beneficient, The Merciful

1. "Say: He, Allah, is One,"

2. "Allah, the Eternal,"

3. "He begets not, nor is He begotten,"

4. "And there is none like unto Him."

THE ABOVE NEEDS NO EXPLAINATIONSAS IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
NO ONE NEED EXPLAIN HOW 3GODS ARE ONE.
NO ONE NEEDS TO CHANGE A SCRIPTURE EVER, TO ACCOMMODATE A PERSON OR GROUP..LIKE PAUL TWISTED AND MANIPULATED THE SCRIPTURES DEPENDING ON HOW OR WHO HE IS MEETING.

1.2.6: The systematic destruction of the law of Jesus
Jesus (pbuh) was a very devout Jew. No Jew could ever raise a finger at him and say why do you not observe the Sabbath? Why do you eat pork? Indeed, it is the apostles of Jesus and not Jesus himself who are depicted in the NT as violating the law. The Bible tells us that Jesus (pbuh) departed never having eaten pork, never having violated the Sabbath, divorce was disallowed except in adultery during his lifetime, he followed the law of Moses to the letter. However, Paul's dreams have now legalized for all Christians that which Jesus (according to the Bible) died believing in.

You will not find a single priest or evangelist who tells his Christian followers "to enter heaven, only keep the commandments" (as his "Lord" did). The vast majority of Christians today do not refrain from eating pork nor do they observe the Sabbath as their "Lord" did, and died doing. There are so many differences between Christians today and Jesus and his actions. Christians in general follow the commandments of Paul and others who are given the power to totally cancel out all of the commandments of both Moses and Jesus, and no Christian has any reservations whatsoever. Christianity is literally built around the premise that disciples of disciples, have the power to cancel the commandments of their prophets and even the law practiced by the alleged Son of God himself.

Let us look at this matter a little closer. God commanded the Jews to observe a very disciplined dietary regimen. This is where the Jews get the word "Kosher" from. "Kosher" refers to all food that it is permissible for a Jew to eat. Among those food that God forbade upon all Jews was swine. For this reason we find that Jesus (pbuh) considered pigs such filthy and disgusting animals that not only did he never taste their flesh (incidentally, Muslims also live out their lives never having tasted a single swine), but he literally considered them so lowly that they were only fit as garbage dumps for devils. In Matthew 8:31-32 we read

"So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.."

However, shortly after Jesus' departure, Paul makes lawful all of the creatures of the earth

"If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

1 Corinthians 10:27

In one tragic moment, Jesus' lifetime of restraint was casually swept under the carpet.

Many people believe that the vision of Peter found in Acts was the primary factor in the cancellation of this fundamental law of the Jews. However, Christian scholars today are well aware that the writings of Paul are the oldest writings to be found in the Bible. They were written between 50-60 AD while even the four Gospels themselves were written decades later between 70-110 C.E. Secondly, the book of Acts (70-90 AD) although popularly considered to have been written by Paul, is now recognized to have been written by some unknown author(s) other than Paul but who was/were sympathetic to his cause.

According to the Bible, Jesus (pbuh) spent his whole life in strict adherence to the commandments of the law of Moses (pbuh). He departed leaving his followers with the following words:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-19

Paul's dreams, however, have broken commandments right and left. There is so much of what Jesus (pbuh) did during his lifetime that his followers have now totally neglected, not because Jesus (pbuh) told them to break the commandments, but because Paul would later tell them to break them upon the authority of the visions he was receiving.

So, what we have concluded from the current view of Jesus' master plan is the following:

1) Jesus (pbuh) lived among his people for thirty three years showing them many miracles and teaching them to keep the commandments of Moses, to observe the Sabbath, to refrain from eating pork, to circumcise their children, to fast with the Jews, to worship in the synagogues, and so forth. He did not do this with his words alone but gave them an example in his own actions. Whenever he spoke about his miracles he claimed that he did them through "the finger of God" and that he "can of mine own self do nothing." Whenever he spoke of worship he would say "worship the Father" and not "worship me," "worship the Trinity," or "worship us." He also never said "I am a god." The term "son of God" was used by his people for many millennia before him to describe a devout servant of God and applied in the Bible to many prophets before him and even to common people. Further, God was understood by the people of his time to be the "Father" of all those who love him.

2) For three centuries after the departure of Jesus (pbuh), his apostles and their followers (excluding Paul and his followers) continued the tradition of Jesus (pbuh) as faithful Jews and followers of the law of Moses (pbuh). They practiced their worship in the synagogues of the Jews, they visited the Temple daily, and for all intents and purposes were indistinguishable from all other Jews except for the fact that they affirmed that Jesus (pbuh) was the promised Messiah, which many Jews did not (and still do not) accept. None of these people, not even Paul, had ever heard of a "Trinity." Jesus (pbuh) decided not to reveal his (and God's) "true" nature until three centuries after his departure. He decided that three centuries after his departure it would be time to come to the church and give them divine "inspiration" to "insert" verses in the Bible validating the "Trinity" (such as 1 John 5:7). These "inspired" revelations from Jesus are documented by Christian historians to have been continuing at least up till the fifteenth century CE (see above). Jesus also "inspired" them to utterly destroy all Gospels written before this fourth century which did not teach this "true" nature of Jesus as being God. He further "inspired" the church to utterly destroy all ancient manuscripts written in the original Aramaic or Hebrew language of Jesus (pbuh) and the apostles. He "inspired" them that the Greek and Latin manuscripts would be amply sufficient. And finally, he "inspired" them to launch a massive campaign of "inquiry" to "cleanse" the earth of all remaining Unitarian Christians or convert them.

3) When Jesus (pbuh) departed, his followers continued to faithfully follow his example and observe the laws of Moses. Now Paul comes along and persecutes the followers of Jesus every way he knows how. He admits that:

"For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it"

Galatians 1:13 (also see Acts 7:58-60, 8:1-3)

Now Jesus (pbuh) decides to bypass his apostles and go directly to the worst persecutor of his followers on earth in a "vision" and give him knowledge not available to the apostles. Paul now reveals that God holds all of mankind responsible for the sin of Adam (Romans 5:11-19, 1 Corinthians 15:22). God himself, however, claims long before Paul was ever born that

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin"

Deuteronomy 24:16.

and "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son"

Ezekiel 18:20

....etc.

4) Paul further revealed that Jesus came to him in visions and told him to nullify the commandments of God which he had spent thirty three years on earth upholding and teaching his followers to observe, and that these commandments "decayeth," were ready to "vanish away," and were a "curse" upon us. The only requirement in order to receive true salvation, according to Paul, is to believe in the original sin and the atonement. No actual work is necessary. This one belief is the only necessary and sufficient condition. However, Jesus departed not only never having violated the law of Moses but also having told his people that "till heaven and earth pass" whoever would dare to do so would be called "the least in the kingdom of God." Jesus (pbuh) was claimed to have been conditioned and prepared for "the atonement" from the beginning of time, however, whenever he was asked about the path to heaven he not only never mentioned any atonement but only (repeatedly) told his followers to "keep the commandments." Even when pressed for the path to perfection he only told his followers to sell their belongings.

5) Jesus never in his life saw fit to write a single inspired word. However, after he died, he started appearing to countless people in their dreams and visions and commanding them to write in his name and guiding their words. He did not see fit to guide their hands from writing conflicting versions of the same story (chapter two) since these contradictions were intended to strengthen a Christian's faith.

6) Since the only course to salvation is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh) and the law of Moses is worthless, therefore, God did not see fit to allow those born before Jesus (pbuh) including countless previous prophets to enter heaven, but rather allowed them to remain stained with the sin of Adam and gave them a very strict and disciplined law that was totally useless and could never relieve them of this hereditary stain. These people shall never receive true salvation. Only those after Jesus (pbuh) will receive true salvation (Romans 3:28...etc.).

hi my name is rawan
im a muslim and im very sad tosee how poeple become so ignorant and start insulting others and treating them bad based on thier religion.my family is both christian and muslim and im proud of that because it taught me that no matter what u believe in,in the end what really GOD wants us to do is love each other,help oen another,feed the POEPLE who have no food,,,,etc,,,and just be equal! live your life like that!so if u are muslim or christian in the end that is what GOD wants us to do! so why cant u all be less ignorant and open ur hearts and minds!everyone has his own opinions and own belief,its ur choice and ur right but in the end you should treat everyone the same,its not up to any of us to tell poeple what to believe and which religion to follow in the end it is GOD who will judge and not YOU! stop judging other poeple no oen is better than the other!

How could you say muslims are worshipping satan when infact muslims try to avoid all satan's temptations such as adultery, homosexuality, gambling, murder and all other evil things. All these evil sins are cleary mentioned in the Quran as evil and has never been changed even to permit one bit. On the day of judgement everyone will have to be accountable for even an atoms worth of evil deed.