Stones Cry Out

Doug writes: We're winning.

Remind me. What are we winning again?

From your own post in the above TrackBack:

He's riffing off an appalling display, by the wankers at Powerline—Time Magazine's 2004 Blog Of The Year— of how far the U.S. military will go to run psy ops on the home population....

Dude, you immediately label any good reports from the ground in Iraq "psy ops". This simply shows that you've already made up your mind about anything remotely regarding Bush and/or the war in Iraq. Doesn't matter what anybody says, you'll be ready with a reaction. A mind get no more closed than that.

And then you go about asking a question. Dude, it doesn't matter what I would say or what anybody would say in answer, because you've already made up your mind as to the "real" answer. Your answer. Any other answer has some nefarious plot behind it ("psy ops" indeed). With that attitude, you're not even really asking a question. You're just baiting a hook.

I'm no longer biting.

again, one has to ask what are we winning?

how do we know that we are winning?

and more importantly why is this alledged colnel in the army reserve opposing the president of the united states, his commander in chief, by attempting to establish some sort of state of ThatIraqiThingiePoo...

Or is this just more of the same old moral relativism.

When the president and his secDef say one can not do a judgement about ThatIraqiThingiePoo, all of the victims of chickenhawk angst hop on that and say that there is no way to know. But when someone says that we are winning, the victims of chickenhawk angst hop on that and say that this must clearly be the truth...

So is it a 'christian' thing to demonstrate moral relativism based upon the underlying status as victims of chickenhawk angst?

Doug Payton writes: Dude, you immediately label any good reports from the ground in Iraq "psy ops".

Not all the reports. Just the ones that appear to be written by "just plain troops"— whose messages for publication in domestic media must, by law, be subjected to military censorship.

On the other hand, when the press officer speaks, you at least know you're getting the spit-shine straight from the source. Unfortunately, the press officers have all either lost their credibility or they've transferred out.

You want to bring me the gospel according to HappyNews.Com? That's fine— but, you do realize, of course, that their reporters aren't any more secure outside The Green Zone than anyone else...

I also like the follow-up letter on the powerline page. It states "This is a great and historical period in American history. We will all be proud of our accomplishments once the Iraqis establish the first truly democratic government in the Arab world. Unfortunately, the Democrats will not join in with that celebration ..."

S9 - You are on the wrong side of histoy. Fortunately, we are Americans and can forgive. It's not too late for you to join the cause of democracy. Stop reading the talking points, wake up, and think for yourself. You will be welcome to join the celebration.

"You are on the wrong side of history..."

I'll bet you a veggie burger that 50 years from now W will be remembered as the guy that either led to the downfall of the US or nearly led to the downfall of the US (but was turned around by the citizens of the US when we rejected his immoral policies).

I pray that it's the latter. Of course, it could be neither. It COULD be that in the gated communities of the US, W is revered as a saint.

But even then, in the rest of the world, as they slave by to continue to supply the raw materials the Gated US requires, THEY will recognize W and his ilk as the despots they are.

Wanna bet? I'll be 92 in 50 years, so you might have to pay up to my son or daughter, if they haven't been exported or imprisoned for treason.

Bruce writes: S9 - You are on the wrong side of [history].

Not yet, I'm not.

So far, in fact, I've got a pretty good track record predicting the likely course of events in Iraq before conventional wisdom came around.

I predicted in 2002 that no evidence of a nuclear weapons proliferation problem would be found in Iraq. I predicted that the United States would invade and occupy Iraq despite the U.N. Security Council refusing to authorize it. I predicted that the invasion would be quick and the occupation would be long and painful. I predicted in February 2002, before the invasion, that the Iraqi military would not put up much fight, and that it would fade into the civilian population to mount an insurgency.

Most importantly, I predicted that the U.S. and its "coalition" would not respond to the insurgency with an effective counter-insurgency. You know how I knew that would happen? Because I knew how many troops would be required for it to work, and I could see quite clearly that there wouldn't be enough. In 2002.

The extent to which my predictions have been wrong so far is only in that I haven't been pessimistic enough. I didn't predict the U.S. would blow the diplomatic game so badly and bring such a toothless coalition into the occupation force. I didn't predict that reconstruction efforts would be bungled as badly as they have. I didn't predict that three and a half years after the invasion, with an insurgency numbering into the tens of thousands and nearly half the civilian population passively cooperating with the insurgents, that the U.S. military would still be refusing to adopt a counter-insurgency posture in Iraq.

If I'm going to be on the wrong side of history, you better hope you can get into a position where you can rewrite it. Though, I'm not too worried— as much as you wish otherwise, I doubt you have the game to do it.

S9 - Part of your problem is that you have no concept of reality. "... nearly half the civilian population passively cooperating with the insurgents..." You are very, very mis-informed as to what is happening over there. As for your predictions, did you predict Iraq would become a democracy? Did you predict that Iraq would have 3 elections in about 1 year? Did you predict that the latest election was almost violence-free? History is being made in Iraq. The course of the nation has been changed forever. The people are liberated. Democracy is on the move. Now our troops will begin coming home, and they can feel fantastic about the accomplishment.