Christianity and Poverty: An Inverted Argument (Mr Myers Examined In Detail)
As noted in the introduction to this series, I’m blogging on two short works on Poverty, the first is Ched Myers The Biblical View of Sabbath Economics and the second is the 14th oration by St. Gregory of Nazianzus entitled “On Love for the Poor” (note I misquoted the title in the prior essay as well as Mr Myers first name). In this short essay, I’m going to attempt to precis the basic thrust of the two works. The current plan is follow this short summary with some critical assessments of the two works. The introduction was here, and the overview essay here.
Reading Mr Myers pamphlet is a little disconcerting. For that which he argues, that concern for the poor, charity, and turnings one heart and aspirations to God instead of the material transient world are all well known and established virtues in Christian living. This where he concludes, where he is driving and this conclusion is not wrong. But it must be admitted, that it is very rare to use the validity of a conclusion to justify an argument … and alas Mr Myers reasons and arguments are very very bad. Mr Myers, as noted in the introduction, follows a unusual hermeneutic for extracting meaning from Scripture. That is he views Scripture via a lens of economics … with a caveat on that description that one must note that his views of economics themselves are also somewhat unusual.
This is a hard thing to do, to criticizet this work, for the conclusions are correct, yet almost every statement made is incorrectly argued and based on faulty premises. A few examples to give a flavor will have to do, for an exhaustive treatment would be, well, exhaustive and an exercise to what end? At any rate here is a taste,
- He notes that the biblical tradition of “Sabbath economics” can be summarized by three axioms (which are not mentioned again). Of these axioms, only one is supportable in Scripture. The first (which is suported), likely derived from Genesis 1 is that the world is created, and is abundant (if we are good stewards). The second (not), that disparities in our gifts are not natural is a result of sin (and therefore must be “mitigated within the community of faith through the regular practice of redistribution”). However, singling out and separation between people and creatures based on different abilities, talents and inheritance is a basic feature of the created world. Third that the prophetic message calls people to practice this redistribution which is the Gospel for the poor. Uhm. No. The gospel is for everyone and it the Gospel is not “the prophetic message to practice redistribution”
- In his first chapter, and I’ll admit this is not an important point but it is demonstrative of the thorough nature of the sloppy scholarship. He starts chapter one talking about Sabbath and creation. He then goes on to note that “there is no “Monday” in the Creation narrative. Uhm, that’s just wrong. The Sabbath is Saturday in our calendar. Sunday is the Christian holy day marking not the rest day of the Creator and Genesis but instead marking the first day of the New Creation, i.e., the day of the Resurrection! The reason I dwell on this seemingly insignificant point is that if your going to present yourself as a Biblical scholar and speak about larger (new) methods of interpreting Scripture, it behooves you to get the easy stuff right.
- He then goes to economically deconstruct and explain the Exodus especially the Manna and other parts of the peoples wanderings in the Desert after being liberated from slavery. He contrasts the manna plenty with the want in the Egyptian slavery, without noting the centralization and nature of the economy in Egyptian which he decries was (according to Scripture) instituted and set up by Joseph acting on visions from God many generations earlier.
- He offers that the “two main axioms of classical economics are:
- The natural condition of scarcity, and
- unlimited human appitite.
!!!??? What? Is that from Malthus? Who says that? What economist? Hayek? Friedman? Mises? Who? Ah, apparently the “economist” who he quotes on this writes this is one Biblical scholar Richard Lowery … not an economist.
- He recounts three (economic basis) for the Order of St. Benedict noting its connection to Marxism. Compare to this summary of that order (or read it yourself). I think it should quickly become obvious that economics are not the overriding concern of the monastic life for St. Benedict (which is as it should be).
This is a repeated problem. If you assume a economic hermeneutic and read everything through a lens of economics (with a definite axe to grind against the market and Marxist leanings) and then discover when reading Scripture find economics is a primary message (and collective/redistribution is also good), that is not a conclusion it is your assumption. Because he draws conclusions beyond the simple message, which is right, that I noted above. I think however, two main fallacies need to be addressed before anything like this might be reasonably looked at.
First, as noted above, the use of the economic hermeneutic needs to be justified outside of its application. Second, the descriptions of what a market economy is should be drawn not from the caricatures of its opponents (such as Marx) and instead by those who study it from within, like those economists noted above, e.g., Mises, Hayek, Friedman and others.
It should be noted in passing that one of the conclusions, that self limitation of consumption and the Christian tradition are essential for the future of the Western world is a theme stressed by Solzhenitsyn, a writer whom I find far more convincing and effective at spreading this message. This theme I hope to return to later in futher essays exploring the prophetic (?) political messages of Solzhenitsyn’s.
Filed under: Book Reviews • Books • Christianity • Economics & Taxes • Mark O. • Protestantism • Religion
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You’ve said a mouthful, there. A couple of thoughts for now…
You say:
He notes that the biblical tradition of “Sabbath economics” can be summarized by three axioms…
Yes, he does. And certainly the Biblical tradition of sabbbath economics CAN be summarized by those three axioms. They are, as you note (here in Myers’ words, in bold):
1. the World as created by God is abundant, with enough for everyone – PROVIDED that human communities restrain their appetites and live within limits
[We apparently agree on this one and it is hard to debate. It is a finite creation and we can’t consume infinitely nor reproduce infinitely. It would be difficult to argue otherwise, this is just a commonsense axiom and I think it can be supported scripturally.]
2. Disparities in wealth and power are not natural but the result of human sin and must be mitigated within the community of faith through the regular practice of redistribution.
[You apparently take issue with this. I find it a very reasonable and biblical position. I don’t know if I’d agree that EVERY instance of disparities in wealth and power are the result of sin, but it certainly often is. And it is certainly true that the Bible spends a great deal of time and effort in various ways of showing how God tells us to mitigate this disparity by the Jubilee Laws, for instance, or the Sabbath laws, both of which are ways of redistributing wealth and not allowing too much of it to accumulate too long in the hands of too few.
This repeated and repeated OT theme is echoed in the NT when churches are asked – and expected – to share with one another, as well as with those outside the faith who are in need. I doubt that you disagree with that, since it’s obviously there. So, I’m not entirely clear what your beef is with this axiom.
You say: “However, singling out and separation between people and creatures based on different abilities, talents and inheritance is a basic feature of the created world.” – but what do you mean by that? What biblical or logical argument are you making there?]
3. The prophetic message calls people to the practice of such redistribution and is thus characterized as “good news” to the poor.
[Your response: “Uhm. No. The gospel is for everyone and it the Gospel is not “the prophetic message to practice redistribution”
A. Myers didn’t say that the gospel is not for everyone. We are all agreed that the gospel is for everyone.
B. Jesus, when he began his ministry, tells us that he had come “to bring good news to the poor…” which is, itself, a quote from the prophet Isaiah. Myers makes the argument that Jesus/Isaiah’s quote there is a reference to Jubilee/Sabbath laws that help set things aright economically for the economically marginalized. And, preaching that to a people who were well acquainted with economic systems that helped keep them marginalized, this appeal to Jubilee IS good news.
C. If Jesus thus defines his Gospel (and I think it clear he does), I’m not going to disagree and say that the gospel is NOT about economic justice for the poor. That is not, in my mind, the whole of the gospel, but Jesus certainly came, he said, “TO preach good news to the poor.” I agree.
D. Throughout the OT and NT, we are given reminders to share our wealth, to have systems in place to deal with economic injustices and to keep wealth and power from accumulating in too few hands. Do you disagree with Myers on this point?
Again, I’m not real clear on what you’re disagreeing with here.]
Dan,
The primary issue I have, as noted several times above, is that the use of an economic hermeneutic on Scripture is unsupported and undefended.
In reverse,
On 3, Jesus claim to “preach the Good News”. Not “to the rich” not “to the poor” to everyone. And that good news has nothing to do with economics.
On 2. The claim that “Disparities in wealth and power are not natural but the result of human sin” is what I disagree with. That is just plain untrue. Disparities in wealth and power arise from disparities of ability, gifts, and opportunity. These come from God not the fallen nature of man. God time after time gives unequally to individuals or groups (Israel are the chosen people for example). Equality is a liberal concept and concern but it is not Scriptural or natural. For that matter God made Eve second and not the “same” or equal in every way to Adam before the fall, clearly the complete “sameness” of every person does not predate the fall.
I would disagree with your take on the economic hermeneutic. I think Myers defends it quite well.
On 3, Jesus said specifically, and I quote, “I have come to preach GOOD NEWS TO THE POOR.” Then he proceeded to say he came to proclaim healing for the sick, release for the captives, to set the downtrodden free – three other groups that would be in poverty most likely.
Yes, I agree with you that he extended that good news to everyone, but I don’t think anyone can get around the direct and explicit words of Jesus. News about implementing Jubilee like rules in the Kingdom of God is specifically going to be good news to the poor who have been disenfranchised and marginalized by unjust economic practices.
What do you do with Jesus’ proclamation of his coming in Luke 4? What about when John the Baptist asked Jesus if he was for real, do you recall what he said?
“Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.”
The good news IS for the rich, too, but don’t you think that Jesus would say that the good news for the rich is that they don’t need to be trapped by their wealth, serving that cruel god? They can be freed to share with all those in need, right? That IS good news, too.
But it is especially good news – more obviously so – for the poor. Why do you think Jesus repeatedly emphasized SPECIFICALLY that? Even going so far as pointing to it as evidence that he was the One?
From what I understand, the idea that the good news is for the poor is more a sense that it is also for the poor. It is not just a message for the well-to-do. Charlatans, preaching to the poor, wouldn’t get much monetary gain out of it; they had to attract the rich. Jesus sounds to me like He’s saying that things are happening with Him that have not happened before, with any other pretender. Unimaginable things are happening; blind people are suddenly being cured, lepers, who most people avoid, are actually being cleansed, dead people are coming back to life. This has never been done before. And on top of that, we’re even taking our good news to the poor, who have been ignored for so long.
It’s the preaching to them that is set up to be amazing, just like the other things in the list. And that’s just it; it’s a list of things that have something in common, that they’re amazing and unprecedented on this scale. Unless you think the item’s categories are; miracle, miracle, miracle, miracle, miracle and a commentary on current unjust economics. Just linguistically it doesn’t fit.
I will add that this is my own reading of it, but I don’t believe it doesn’t require as much assignment of meaning as your interpretation does.
[Edit: Added “just a message for the well-to-do”; we agree it is for them, too.]
Mark said:
On 2. The claim that “Disparities in wealth and power are not natural but the result of human sin” is what I disagree with. That is just plain untrue. Disparities in wealth and power arise from disparities of ability, gifts, and opportunity.
Says who? Your explanation sounds like a fine take on Adam Smith’s thinking, but how biblically apt is it?
Is it not more accurate to say that SOMETIMES disparities in wealth and power happen because of disparities in ability, gifts and opportunity, BUT SOMETIMES disparities occur because of unjust systems?
When Saddam Hussein accumulated his wealth and power, how did he do so? Because he had more innate abilities and gifts? Or was it because he ruthlessly took charge, removing obstacles by any means necessary?
Clearly, his wealth and power were not simply a matter of talent and gifts (although I reckon you could make the argument that he DID take and make opportunities for himself – of course, that would not make it right).
Let’s look at what the Bible has to say…
The Lord has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
God has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
Mary, Luke 1
Why did God bring down the rulers? Why did God send away the rich, empty? Was it merely because God hates the rich? OR, was it because there was something wrong with the way they accumulated their wealth and power?
But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.
Jesus, Luke 6
Why does Jesus say “Woe,” to the rich and tell them they’ve arleady received their comfort? Do you think that Jesus thought they had merely used their talent and gifts to create wealth and now he is punishing them? OR, is it because there was something innately wrong with HOW they generated their wealth? Or perhaps how they hoarded their wealth, or used their wealth?
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?
But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they [the rich] not the ones who are dragging you into court?
Are they [the rich] not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?…
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you…. Behold, the wages you withheld from the workers who harvested your fields are crying aloud, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
James 2 and James 5
Why has James singled out the rich as the ones who are exploiting the believers – especially the poor? Why has James said that the rich are the ones who are slandering God’s name?
Is it merely because they used their talents and gifts to get wealthy? Or was there something wrong with how they accumulated wealth? CLEARLY, James is pointing to the unjust practices of “the rich” who have economically exploited his workers, right?
That’s only scratching the surface of the NT, and I have not even begun looking at the OT, which has much more to say on the topic of how wealth can be accumulated through unjust means.
I don’t think you really mean to suggest that “Disparities in wealth and power arise from disparities of ability, gifts, and opportunity.”
Surely you agree that it is some of both (“good” use of talent, etc vs unjust practices and systems)? I suspect that you do.
Dan,
I didn’t see Mr Myers ever defend the use of his economic hermeneutic. He used it and found that lo and behold when he read in that way, lots of economic messages popped out. That is a logical fallacy, he’s assuming the result and unsurprisingly that is found as a conclusion. But he did not justify externally from that hermeneutic the use of that hermeneutic.
Actually in point of fact, I think modern economic arguments would show that implementing specific time based debt forgiveness programs would be not helpful and in fact harmful to the poor.
One of the South American countries (I forget if it is Chile or Argentina) has a lot of private ownership of property but also has laws forbidding using that home as collateral. Thus a small entrepreneur cannot use his home as collateral to start a business. Failure to being able to risk one’s home mean that capital is useless and out of play … which in turns extends poverty because those people cannot expand and start businesses. How many lenders are going to offer long term loans in the face of near term debt forgiveness. What the Jubilee will yield is less money available for lending to the poor not more.
Furthermore Israel had notion of land belonging in perpetuity to a certain clan or family. At Jubilee that was to be returned. Translating that notion to a multi-cultural diverse society such as the US is impossible. Imagine you are an immigrant. Land is locked up and unavailable. Home of the free indeed.
I didn’t see Mr Myers ever defend the use of his economic hermeneutic. He used it and found that lo and behold when he read in that way, lots of economic messages popped out.
Perhaps I’m not understanding your use of the term “economic hermeneutic.” I mean, I know the meaning of the word, but what makes you say that Myers used an economic hermeneutic?
From where I sit, he showed how consistently what he defines as Sabbath Economics comes up in the Bible, how often Jubilee themes arise. How often Sabbath and “manna” themes arise. How often matters of economic justice arise. His hermeneutic seems to me to be a bible-based hermeneutic that sets aside modern, capitalist assumptions and prejudices and just takes the passages for what they have to say.
What are examples of his “economic hermeneutic,” to you?
It seems like to me, if you simply read the Bible afresh, economic themes pop out without having to look for them.
Dan,
Because some (fewer in number) people get their wealth by abusing their position and power does not mean most do.
Let’s take a non-Scriptural example, Josef Hayden. He’s a (well known) composer who did quite well for himself composing baroque music for the courts of England. His wealth was largely due (for sake of argument) to his particular gifts and talents at musical composition. Are you pretending that his being gifted in music and Sam Smith the blacksmith (who was not wealthy and who was not gifted in the same way) is the result of Adam’s fall and sin entering the world … or perhaps God gifts us each differently and that is a major factor in why some are richer or poorer than others?
Take as a second example a herder of note, named Abram at birth. God selected him to be the father of a people. Was it a result of sin that he didn’t also ask and select every other man alive at that time. Or perhaps there is a disparity in how God treats us which is supported in Scripture.
On the hermeneutic. Look if you decide (ahead of time because of hermeneutic) to interpret Exodus as economic redemption and do the same for other stories the fact that you find a lot of instances of economic redemption is meaningless. You have to argue, outside of Scripture why an economic outlook is meaningful or useful. Mr Myers does not do that.
You (and in fact nobody) reads the Bible (or any text) in a vacuum. You are reading it with a particular anti-capitalist (and in fact Marxist leaning) viewpoint. I say Marxist not necessarily pointing to the particular ideas of Marxism but to Marx’s particular (wrong in my view) notion that history and events are to be interpreted via economics. I think that’s a particularly poor way to do history and as well a particularly poor way to read Scripture.
Oh? I’m reading the Bible with an anti-capitalist and even a Marxist ! viewpoint?
Again, says who?
I don’t think I’m reading it thusly (and it is ME who we’re talking about so I reckon I’d probably have a fairly good idea).
I CERTAINLY wasn’t reading it thusly in my younger days when I was a budding young Republican and, to be quite honest, I’m not doing so now.
I was reading it as a young Republican with my head all full of traditional conservative Christian opinion (Dobson, Billy Graham, CS Lewis, David Wilkerson, Leonard Ravenhill, Oswald Chambers, John Wesley, Charles Sheldon, etc, etc, etc) but with a sincere, earnest desire to know the Bible well and to heed what it said regardless of what human traditions or the liberal media may tell me.
That is how I ended up believing as I believe.
I didn’t read about Marx til much later on.
On the hermeneutic. Look if you decide (ahead of time because of hermeneutic) to interpret Exodus as economic redemption and do the same for other stories the fact that you find a lot of instances of economic redemption is meaningless. You have to argue, outside of Scripture why an economic outlook is meaningful or useful. Mr Myers does not do that.
Again, I don’t understand your view. I don’t think Myers says anything about an economic hermeneutic, right? That’s your interpretation of what Myers has done (similar to your mistaken assumptions about how I’ve read the Bible).
What I see Myers doing is looking at Exodus and seeing right there in plain sight plenty of talk about economic issues. It’s not that he is going to look for questions of economic justice, of issues of wealth and poverty and power, those are all there.
Now, once you notice (as I did, as a young conservative Christian) how very THICK the Bible is with economic justice issues, then you DO sort of notice it even more.
That is what I see Myers doing. And, in fact, I have friends who work with Myers and so I am relatively sure that is not the case at all. I believe his story is much like mine: Starting from a traditional evangelical point of view and desiring to know the word of God and take it seriously and in that process, noticing how much an economic thread is found within its pages. And a fairly consistent thread, at that.
Dan,
You mean he’s using an economic hermeneutic and isn’t even self consciously aware of what he’s doing? Oh, that’s better.
Look he isn’t just “reading Scripture plain” (for in truth nobody does that anyhow), but time and time again he’s straining for a economic theme. Look at his citations noted above about the rule of St. Benedict. He notes the rule of St. Benedict in stark economic terms supporting his particular economic thesis. But … as I linked above, read some of the actual rules set by St. Benedict. There is no support textually speaking for any sort of interpretation which Mr Myers draws. He’s making it all up.
One question I have for you Dan, is this. Why does Mr Myers back off from recommending actual monastic praxis? Why does he not issue a call for Protestant monastic life? Why reject the monastic traditions followed by East or West and not call for that. For monastic life is indeed exactly the sort of community which he wishes everyone to follow. Why back away? That I fail to understand.
Look I have stated several times, I agree with the conclusion, that charity for the poor, limitation of our consumption, and other things he notes are correctly seen as a Christian calling. I strongly disagree with the methods of his argument and for that matter that this is “the primary” message of Scripture. I’d put it in third or fourth place.
You mean he’s using an economic hermeneutic and isn’t even self consciously aware of what he’s doing? Oh, that’s better.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying YOU are the one suggesting he’s using an economic lens to interpret the Bible.
I’m saying that Myers is reading the Bible and pointing to the economic themes that are there already.
One question I have for you Dan, is this. Why does Mr Myers back off from recommending actual monastic praxis?
Mark, perhaps it would help if you offer the quote(s) that is/are troubling you? I think you’re reading things into Myers that he isn’t saying.
I would guess he doesn’t recommend monastic praxis because the Bible does not call for it and this is a book based on biblical teaching, but I don’t have it here in front of me, so I’m not sure what it is specifically to which you are referring.
Doug said earlier:
From what I understand, the idea that the good news is for the poor is more a sense that it is also for the poor. It is not just a message for the well-to-do.
Not buying it. It doesn’t say that, why ought we take it that way?
Here’s some of those passages:
The Lord has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
God has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
-Mary, Mother of Jesus
Luke 1:52-53
Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied…
But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 6:24
Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19
THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE GOD ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS TO THE POOR.
GOD HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED…
Luke 4
[Jesus said:] Report to him [John the Baptist] what you hear and see. Blind people receive sight. Disabled people walk… And the good news is preached to those who are poor.
Matt 11
These passages and more don’t sound like they’re saying, “oh, and also the poor – not just the rich!” It sounds like serious warnings to the rich, who will have a difficult time getting into the kingdom of God! and comfort and a promise for the poor: The Kingdom of God is a different way of doing things – you won’t be marginalized there!
I think that would be a stretch to suggest that all it is saying is that the good news is ALSO for the poor. It is specifically good news to the poor for obvious, immediate reasons.
Dan,
And “render unto Caesar” (oppressor)? And to the Centurion, who was also one of the oppressors to whom he had a chance to make remarks about oppression either to his face or after the fact to his disciples? He did not. Everything is not about oppression and the poor. He didn’t tell the Centurion that, you know you’re an oppressor so I can’t heal your child (at a distance) until you renounce that.
On monastic practice, you’re not making sense. Monastic practice is exactly what biblical teaching request: Communal, Service, Prayer, putting God first, chastity, love, all of the rest.
What am I missing? How is communal monastic life not Biblical?
Everything is not about oppression and the poor.
Absolutely not. Never said it was. Nor does Myers.
But clearly, in the Bible, injustices were VERY OFTEN about oppression and the poor. And God takes it very seriously.
But we do agree. Everything is not about oppression and the poor.
On monastic practice, you’re not making sense. Monastic practice is exactly what biblical teaching request: Communal, Service, Prayer, putting God first, chastity, love, all of the rest.
I’m not from a tradition that has monastaries so perhaps I’m not well-informed in that regards. And again, I don’t have Myers’ book in front of me so I don’t know what he said specifically (and again, I’d suggest it would help if you’d cite specifically what he has said that you find problematic).
I was going with the dictionary definition of monasticism:
1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of monks or nuns, their manner of life, or their religious obligations: monastic vows.
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a secluded, dedicated, or austere manner of living.
The Bible does not talk about nor encourage monastic living of this sort. That’s what I’m talking about when I said:
“I would guess he doesn’t recommend monastic praxis because the Bible does not call for it and this is a book based on biblical teaching.”
Do those who practice monasticism have some other definition?
Dan,
Let’s see on the monastic tradition thing.
Mr Myers calls for: limited consumption, communal sharing of resources, service and caring for others.
Monks: live (very) austerely often taking vows of extreme poverty, live communally, and serve and care for others.
It seems to me there is a match. In noting St. Penedict’s rules, it seems Mr Myers notices that monks follow a lot of what he is calling for. The question is why he doesn’t make that connection and call for a revival of monastic practice within your (his) tradition?
And, I’ll write another post trying to give some more concrete examples tonight when I’m in front of the book.
Again, I’m still not sure what you’re asking. As you note, Myers is calling for limited consumption, communal sharing of resources, service and caring for others. And as you note, Myers apparently makes a connection to monastics who do have some of the same ideals.
What are you asking? It sounds like you and he are in agreement insofar as those aspects of monastic life are goods to be pursued. What “actual monastic praxis” are you looking for that Myers is not recommending?
Dan,
Uhm, joining or establishing actual monasteries and convents?
THAT is what I was alluding to that is not biblical and that would be the reason Myers’ does not endorse it.
At least, going by the dictionary definition of the word, Monastary.
One need not be a celibate priest/nun/monk in a setting removed from the world in order to imbibe in Christian community.
If one WANTS to join a monastic setting, I don’t think Myers would have a problem with that, but his point is, as you noted, “calling for limited consumption, communal sharing of resources, service and caring for others.” THAT’S the Biblical part and thus what Myers endorses.
If you want to take that extra step and join a monastery, go for it. I don’t think Myers would have a problem with that.
Dan,
What is not biblical about monastic communities?
Withdrawing away from the world (as I understand them, perhaps that’s not always accurate) and celibacy/no marriage.
Otherwise, from what I know about monastaries, I’m a fairly big fan.
I don’t believe Christians are to live whole lives in seclusion, away from the world. If that is not the case, then I can stand corrected.
But if they are just places where people practice what Myers advocates, what are you complaining about?
Dan,
Jesus and St. Paul both withdrew from the world for a time at the start of their ministries.
Celibacy is noted as a higher calling than marriage than Paul.
Both notions are Biblical.
I’m not complaining, I’m asking why Myer’s fails to make the connection.
And I’m saying because they’re not biblical injunctions. Paul says some can remain celibate if that is what they’re called to (not that it’s a “higher calling” – just a different calling).
Withdrawing for a time is fine and I think Myers would agree.
So, again, I’m not sure that there’s any disagreement on the monastery thing. And it seems to be rather an aside to the main gists of the book.
Mark O.,
Try your hermeneutic on this one. Regarding the offering for the poor in Jerusalem,” For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality-at this present time your abundance being a supply for their want, that their abundance also may become a supply for your want, that there might be equality; as it is written, ‘He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little had no lack.”
I wanted to mention New Monasticism: http://www.newmonasticism.org/
It is my understanding that Chad Myers is read by many people involved in this. Whatever Chad Myers is pushing for, it seems to have had a good outcome. These new monastics are out there taking the commandments of Christ to help the poor and share with each other. They are a fine group of people. There are a lot of singles in these groups as well. They may marry later, but I’m really impressed with what they are doing. Many people spend their 20’s trying to find spouses and building thier careers. This is on the back burner for many of these people.
I’ve enjoyed reading the article here and the comments. Thanks everyone.
Michele,
Check back later. I’ve looked at the site and I plan to write on it (and what I see as parallels to early monasticism) tonight.