Things Heard: e38v3
Wednesday, October 29th, 2008 at
8:59 am
- Sexual mores and the fault line and more on that fault line and 5-d or 2-d morality.
- Spreading the wealth and some founders quotes. And considering consequences of the same.
- All or none, no?
- Secrets, anonymity, and “send Frank a secret”.
- Green and concert going.
- On being sans salt.
- Time and regret.
- More links.
- Oil and canvas yet again.
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Thank you for the link. 🙂
Spreading the wealth, PROGRESSIVE TAXATION and the founding fathers:
“Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.”
~Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785
“The collection of taxes… has been as yet only by duties on consumption. As these fall principally on the rich, it is a general desire to make them contribute the whole money we want, if possible. And we have a hope that they will furnish enough for the expenses of government and the interest of our whole public debt, foreign and domestic.”
~Thomas Jefferson to Comte de Moustier, 1790
“The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. … Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings.”
~Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811
“The great mass of the articles on which impost is paid is foreign luxuries, purchased by those only who are rich enough to afford themselves the use of them. Their patriotism would certainly prefer its continuance and application to the great purposes of the public education, roads, rivers, canals, and such other objects of public improvement as it may be thought proper to add to the constitutional enumeration of federal powers.”
~Thomas Jefferson: 6th Annual Message, 1806
The Jefferson and other quotes at your link were about taking one person’s wealth and giving it to another. No one is arguing about that. Clearly it is wrong to take one person’s stuff and give it to another.
But just as clearly, Jefferson (and I believe many of the others) supported a PROGRESSIVE taxation system where, according to Jefferson, the WHOLE of the gov’t’s tax moneys could come from the wealthiest people and it would be a patriotic thing for them to contribute such money in order to make America “a paradise” for the poor farmers and others scraping by.
so, in summation, TAKING STUFF is wrong.
Taxing the wealthy more than the least of these is a good thing. The majority of Americans agree with this (see polls), Jefferson agreed with it and I’d suggest anyone concerned about justice would agree. Now, I’m not willing to go so far as Jefferson and suggest that ALL of our tax moneys should come from the wealthy, nor am I able to say what Jefferson would think about our current system, but clearly, he favored progressive taxation in general, contrary to what the person at your link is suggesting.
Gallup poll on taxing the rich.
Dan,
The founders, I think, would have been appalled at the notion of an income tax. That wasn’t established until the 20th century. What you’re referring to above is a luxury tax.
Hey, I’ll go for that! I’m with Jefferson 100%. Let’s eliminate income and wage taxes and replace that with consumption and luxury taxes alone. That is what the founders are talking about when they refer to progressive taxation. Are you for that?
As for your remarks on polling data, almost everybody (especially those who aren’t thinking about it very hard) are in favor of heavier taxes on somebody else. That gallup poll is meaningless.
Meaningless? It is a reflection of some of your fellow citizens’ opinions.
I’m not opposed to sales tax or consumption taxes as long as they meet Jefferson’s criteria: That they don’t impose a hardship upon the poor and that they raise enough income to meet the needs of the commonwealth. Our circumstances are different now, though, so I’m not sure a sales tax would be the most efficient way of doing things. But if you can make a proposal for a plan that raises the money that gov’t needs and that does not place undue hardships on the poor, go for it.
Dan,
So what? I don’t form my opinion based on a poll of my neighbors … and neither do you I might add.
Thank you, you are correct. We don’t form our opinions based on polls, nor should we. BUT, we do form our laws based roughly on majority rule. If the majority of Americans think the most moral, ethical and practical system to raise gov’t money is a progressive income tax, then that is what we’ll have. It would be encumbent upon those in the minority to make a good enough argument to change the minds of those in the majority if they want change.
That’s why it matters.
I’d probably implement laws that would encourage a whole lot less driving – perhaps a higher gas tax or something. But I’m in the minority on that point. It matters to me what the majority thinks when I think they’re wrong. I’d think it would matter to you, too.