Things Heard: edition 13v5
Friday, April 18th, 2008 at
8:14 am
- A book (for kids) supporting an erroneous view on beauty.
- Those ignorant of history are doomed to … make really stupid signs.
- Logic and the Left on abortion … or not.
- Weird computer tricks.
- On polygamy in Texas … one question asked elsewhere would be how this would be treated (by the state and the press) if the polygamist sect was Muslim?
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On the polygamy post, I would have to disagree with his conclusion and, I think, your suggestion that it would have been different if this were Muslims, not Fundy Mormons.
I don’t know enough about polygamy to know whether child abuse is part and parcel of it, but from the reports I’ve seen, child abuse DOES seem to be part and parcel of this community.
From my point of view (and a legal point of view), it IS abuse to force girls to marry. It’s abuse to FORCE anyone to marry, but it is an especially repugnant abuse to brainwash girls under 16 to think that God WANTS them to marry and have babies at such young ages. This is horrifying.
I think gov’t needs to be cautious about dealing with religions that are not mainstream – not to punish them merely because they’re out of the mainstream. But this is different, there are children who are being abused and that should be stopped.
Dan,
Sorry about not responding quicker.
I think there’s a lot of disinformation in the air, or at the very least too much varied information to know what’s really happened there. By one account, there was one reported abuse and as a result 160 kids were taken from their families. On others, there is widespread abuse. For myself, I’m willing to say that I have no idea what is really going on or happened … except to note that most of “us” have a mistaken impression.
For myself I don’t know. However, the marrying and those practices are fairly standard fare in the Middle East I think … if that is just as horrifying … why isn’t the MSM and liberal “elite” pushing for … say Christian and Western culture evangelism in the Middle East instead of multicultural “acceptance” and the like?
Because we don’t run those countries?
I don’t like polygamy or child abuse wherever it happens but we have an obligation to our fellow citizens to protect the innocent within the bounds of our laws.
We have no legal say in what other countries do. Now, “liberals” certainly DO make efforts to keep track of human rights abuses wherever it happens (in fact, that is one place where one too seldom hears conservative voices – rising up against human rights abuses). I’m all for working within reasonable bounds to help others in other nations but that gets a bit trickier due to that darn national sovereignty issue.
Mark,
I assume that there is SOME point at which you would say that the state ought to intervene, and you are just questioning whether this rises to that bar?
If Jim Jones were to announce he was having another koolaid party for all the kids in his commune which he had relocated to Montana, I’m supposing you’d want someone to intervene?
Dan,
That’s completely untrue. Well, it is true that we don’t “run those countries” and that we “don’t have a legal say in what those countries do”. But you have the wrong conclusion for we certainly do have an obligation to protect the innocents wherever they are in and out of our country.
You are Christian. There are Christians in those countries. There is nothing stopping our Churches from supporting financially, materially, and personally those individuals in those churches and to encourage their evangelism. There are other means in which we can spread other notions of freedom as well which don’t involve confronting national sovereignty.
And yes, I think there is a point at which I think the state should intervene. I’ve seen varying reports … from the notion that one abused child led to the removal of children from every family in a parish without any further investigation ranging to reports of rampant abuse. So what I mean when I say that I don’t know what should be done … it’s because I don’t know the situation.
How would you feel if your religion was the minority … that because one child was abused by one member of your parish, DCFS decided to take your children “pending further investigation” and turned your life upside down with the assumption that your “cult” was all the same?
My religion (anabaptism) IS a minority. And as such, I’m quite concerned when the majority pushes its will off on minorities.
Still, we need to protect the innocent if there’s evidence that suggests they’re at risk.
Mark, my question about the FLDS kids was not an accusation or being snarky, but an honest attempt at understanding – do you think now there’s enough evidence to warrant stepping in on behalf of the children?
I’ll post it down here at the correct post so I’m not straying off topic…
Dan,
Oh, my religion/demonimation (in the states) is likely even more a minority … Eastern Orthodoxy.
On FLDS, I haven’t been following it as close as I might … but I think it very likely that now there is enough evidence. But wouldn’t have been better/correct to gather evidence before moving in?
So, we both agree that we want to be cautious about maltreatment of minority positions and faith traditions. Wholeheartedly.
As to gathering evidence before they moved in, from what I can ascertain, there seemed to be plenty of evidence. Our system – with the police and social workers and courts and all – is not perfect, but it does work oftentimes.
If the media is not reporting all the news about the evidence for such an action, most often that means the system is working right. The police and social workers, etc, aren’t supposed to reveal all the details – protect the innocent and all that.
It’s a balancing act, but I think oftentimes it works as it should.
Dan,
I had heard initial rumors that “going in” was based on one report of abuse, i.e., minimal investigation beforehand. If that is false, great.
And I’ll agree it’s a difficult balancing act.